Guess the problem is by default virtual desktops is set to 1(no need to display pager for 1 desktop). Can we change the default to 2 or the traditional 4?

The default is 4

Booting up my f16 vm, sure enough, the pager applet doesn't seem to work or appear correctly.  :(  (works fine on my f15/kde47 box though)

Did the default change in 4.7, maybe?

I tested f15/kde47 too, mind you, so I'd lean toward no.

> I tested f15/kde47 too

With a fresh user account?

I only tested doing:
* remove panel
* add default panel

the resultant panels appearing are the same, except for f16, 
* the pager doesn't appear.
* trying to manually add a pager, doesn't work.

Actually, adding a pager does work.. it just does not display! If you go into KDE System Settings and set for more than 1 desktop(Workspace Behavior, Virtual Desktops), the original pager and any you have added will ALL show! The default setting is 1.

Actually, adding a pager does work.. it just does not display! If you go into KDE System Settings and set for more than 1 desktop(Workspace Behavior, Virtual Desktops), the original pager and any you have added will ALL show! The default setting is 1.

OK, found the preference in kwinrc

[Desktops]
Number=4

I'd venture a guess that upstream's motivation here (resetting the default to 1) was to highlight activities over virtual desktops.  And, not displaying a pager for just 1 desktop...

So, should we override that or not?

So, I personally use only 1 virtual desktop, but I'm not sure it makes sense to have that as a default.

If we do reset the default to 4, we need to make sure a pager is actually shown by default, too. Having multiple virtual desktops with no obvious way to switch between them would be extremely confusing.

In any case, we need a decision FAST, the change deadline is coming soon.

I'm of a mind to just keep things as-is.

Please do holler if anyone disagrees.

So the default panel in 4.7:
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/entry/plasma/desktop/shell/data/layouts/org.kde.plasma-desktop.defaultPanel/contents/layout.js?rev=KDE%2F4.7
still contains the pager. It's just hidden because the default number of desktops is 1. So it'd be a trivial kde-settings change to set this to 4.

Since the default has been either 2 or 4 in almost every distro since KDE 4 came out, I think it will be very confusing to many KDE users. Especially with no obvious answer as to why no pager, or where to go to change the default. I have been using KDE since 4.04 and I did not find it. And it just works in F15!... with the same KDE version!

This was the upstream commit which changed the default:
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/47abb223a1f89c77ebad49192f0096d4d9b52760

It would be trivial to override this in kde-settings. (I'm tempted to do it, but I have it set to 1 on my own machines, so I'm probably the wrong person to change this setting. ;-) )

There is a bug here.  The user cannot understand why the pager they keep adding to their panel does not display.  If the user is trying to create a pager they want more than one page.  So, when the pager is added the number of desktops should be set to something higher than 1.

I would tend to agree the situation isn't ideal, but there's not much we/here in fedora can do about the upstream behavior/design here.

Well, sorry, other than changing the fedora default number of virtual desktops to > 1 of course.

It's still not a bug. It's smart design to not show the pager when there's nothing to page. There's also a checkmark next to the pager in the "Add widgets…" popup, which shows you that the pager is already added.

Smart design would not allow the user to add invisible, unusable things to the panel.

Fwiw, it would appear this situation has improved in kde-4.8rc2, the pager applet is again visible when virtual desktops = 1.

akonadi-1.7.1-1.fc16,analitza-4.8.1-1.fc16,ark-4.8.1-1.fc16,blinken-4.8.1-1.fc16,cantor-4.8.1-1.fc16,digikam-2.5.0-3.fc16,filelight-4.8.1-1.fc16,gwenview-4.8.1-1.fc16,jovie-4.8.1-1.fc16,kaccessible-4.8.1-1.fc16,kactivities-4.8.1-1.fc16,kalgebra-4.8.1-1.fc16,kalzium-4.8.1-1.fc16,kamera-4.8.1-1.fc16,kanagram-4.8.1-1.fc16,kate-4.8.1-1.fc16,kbruch-4.8.1-1.fc16,kcalc-4.8.1-1.fc16,kcharselect-4.8.1-1.fc16,kcolorchooser-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-baseapps-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-l10n-4.8.1-2.fc16,kde-printer-applet-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-runtime-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-wallpapers-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-workspace-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeaccessibility-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeadmin-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeartwork-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdebindings-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeedu-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegames-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-mobipocket-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-thumbnailers-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdelibs-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdemultimedia-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdenetwork-4.8.1-1.fc16.1,kdepim-4.8.1-2.fc16,kdepim-runtime-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdepimlibs-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeplasma-addons-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdesdk-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdetoys-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeutils-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdevelop-4.2.3-5.fc16,kdf-4.8.1-1.fc16,kfloppy-4.8.1-1.fc16,kgamma-4.8.1-1.fc16,kgeography-4.8.1-1.fc16,kgpg-4.8.1-1.fc16,khangman-4.8.1-1.fc16,kig-4.8.1-1.fc16,kimono-4.8.1-1.fc16,kiten-4.8.1-1.fc16,klettres-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmag-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmousetool-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmouth-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmplot-4.8.1-1.fc16,kolourpaint-4.8.1-1.fc16,konsole-4.8.1-1.fc16,kremotecontrol-4.8.1-1.fc16,kross-interpreters-4.8.1-1.fc16,kruler-4.8.1-1.fc16,ksaneplugin-4.8.1-1.fc16,ksecrets-4.8.1-1.fc16,ksnapshot-4.8.1-1.fc16,kstars-4.8.1-1.fc16,ktimer-4.8.1-1.fc16,ktorrent-4.2.0-1.fc16,ktouch-4.8.1-1.fc16,kturtle-4.8.1-1.fc16,kwallet-4.8.1-1.fc16,kwordquiz-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkdcraw-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkdeedu-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkexiv2-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkipi-4.8.1-1.fc16,libksane-4.8.1-1.fc16,libktorrent-1.2.0-1.fc16,marble-4.8.1-1.fc16,okular-4.8.1-1.fc16,oxygen-gtk-1.2.0-2.fc16,oxygen-gtk2-1.2.1-1.fc16,oxygen-icon-theme-4.8.1-1.fc16,parley-4.8.1-1.fc16,pykde4-4.8.1-1.fc16,qyoto-4.8.1-1.fc16,rocs-4.8.1-1.fc16,ruby-korundum-4.8.1-1.fc16,ruby-qt-4.8.1-1.fc16,smokegen-4.8.1-1.fc16,smokekde-4.8.1-1.fc16,smokeqt-4.8.1-1.fc16,step-4.8.1-1.fc16,superkaramba-4.8.1-1.fc16,svgpart-4.8.1-1.fc16,sweeper-4.8.1-1.fc16,xsettings-kde-0.12.3-2.fc16.1 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 16.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/akonadi-1.7.1-1.fc16,analitza-4.8.1-1.fc16,ark-4.8.1-1.fc16,blinken-4.8.1-1.fc16,cantor-4.8.1-1.fc16,digikam-2.5.0-3.fc16,filelight-4.8.1-1.fc16,gwenview-4.8.1-1.fc16,jovie-4.8.1-1.fc16,kaccessible-4.8.1-1.fc16,kactivities-4.8.1-1.fc16,kalgebra-4.8.1-1.fc16,kalzium-4.8.1-1.fc16,kamera-4.8.1-1.fc16,kanagram-4.8.1-1.fc16,kate-4.8.1-1.fc16,kbruch-4.8.1-1.fc16,kcalc-4.8.1-1.fc16,kcharselect-4.8.1-1.fc16,kcolorchooser-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-baseapps-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-l10n-4.8.1-2.fc16,kde-printer-applet-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-runtime-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-wallpapers-4.8.1-1.fc16,kde-workspace-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeaccessibility-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeadmin-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeartwork-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdebindings-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeedu-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegames-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-mobipocket-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdegraphics-thumbnailers-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdelibs-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdemultimedia-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdenetwork-4.8.1-1.fc16.1,kdepim-4.8.1-2.fc16,kdepim-runtime-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdepimlibs-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeplasma-addons-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdesdk-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdetoys-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdeutils-4.8.1-1.fc16,kdevelop-4.2.3-5.fc16,kdf-4.8.1-1.fc16,kfloppy-4.8.1-1.fc16,kgamma-4.8.1-1.fc16,kgeography-4.8.1-1.fc16,kgpg-4.8.1-1.fc16,khangman-4.8.1-1.fc16,kig-4.8.1-1.fc16,kimono-4.8.1-1.fc16,kiten-4.8.1-1.fc16,klettres-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmag-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmousetool-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmouth-4.8.1-1.fc16,kmplot-4.8.1-1.fc16,kolourpaint-4.8.1-1.fc16,konsole-4.8.1-1.fc16,kremotecontrol-4.8.1-1.fc16,kross-interpreters-4.8.1-1.fc16,kruler-4.8.1-1.fc16,ksaneplugin-4.8.1-1.fc16,ksecrets-4.8.1-1.fc16,ksnapshot-4.8.1-1.fc16,kstars-4.8.1-1.fc16,ktimer-4.8.1-1.fc16,ktorrent-4.2.0-1.fc16,ktouch-4.8.1-1.fc16,kturtle-4.8.1-1.fc16,kwallet-4.8.1-1.fc16,kwordquiz-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkdcraw-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkdeedu-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkexiv2-4.8.1-1.fc16,libkipi-4.8.1-1.fc16,libksane-4.8.1-1.fc16,libktorrent-1.2.0-1.fc16,marble-4.8.1-1.fc16,okular-4.8.1-1.fc16,oxygen-gtk-1.2.0-2.fc16,oxygen-gtk2-1.2.1-1.fc16,oxygen-icon-theme-4.8.1-1.fc16,parley-4.8.1-1.fc16,pykde4-4.8.1-1.fc16,qyoto-4.8.1-1.fc16,rocs-4.8.1-1.fc16,ruby-korundum-4.8.1-1.fc16,ruby-qt-4.8.1-1.fc16,smokegen-4.8.1-1.fc16,smokekde-4.8.1-1.fc16,smokeqt-4.8.1-1.fc16,step-4.8.1-1.fc16,superkaramba-4.8.1-1.fc16,svgpart-4.8.1-1.fc16,sweeper-4.8.1-1.fc16,xsettings-kde-0.12.3-2.fc16.1

akonadi-1.7.1-1.fc16, analitza-4.8.1-1.fc16, ark-4.8.1-1.fc16, blinken-4.8.1-1.fc16, cantor-4.8.1-1.fc16, digikam-2.5.0-3.fc16, filelight-4.8.1-1.fc16, jovie-4.8.1-1.fc16, kaccessible-4.8.1-1.fc16, kactivities-4.8.1-1.fc16, kalgebra-4.8.1-1.fc16, kalzium-4.8.1-1.fc16, kamera-4.8.1-1.fc16, kanagram-4.8.1-1.fc16, kate-4.8.1-1.fc16, kbruch-4.8.1-1.fc16, kcalc-4.8.1-1.fc16, kcharselect-4.8.1-1.fc16, kcolorchooser-4.8.1-1.fc16, kde-baseapps-4.8.1-1.fc16, kde-l10n-4.8.1-2.fc16, kde-printer-applet-4.8.1-1.fc16, kde-wallpapers-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdeaccessibility-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdeadmin-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdeartwork-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdebindings-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdeedu-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdegames-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdegraphics-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdegraphics-mobipocket-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdegraphics-thumbnailers-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdemultimedia-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdenetwork-4.8.1-1.fc16.1, kdepimlibs-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdesdk-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdetoys-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdeutils-4.8.1-1.fc16, kdevelop-4.2.3-5.fc16, kdf-4.8.1-1.fc16, kfloppy-4.8.1-1.fc16, kgamma-4.8.1-1.fc16, kgeography-4.8.1-1.fc16, kgpg-4.8.1-1.fc16, khangman-4.8.1-1.fc16, kig-4.8.1-1.fc16, kimono-4.8.1-1.fc16, kiten-4.8.1-1.fc16, klettres-4.8.1-1.fc16, kmag-4.8.1-1.fc16, kmousetool-4.8.1-1.fc16, kmouth-4.8.1-1.fc16, kmplot-4.8.1-1.fc16, kolourpaint-4.8.1-1.fc16, konsole-4.8.1-1.fc16, kremotecontrol-4.8.1-1.fc16, kross-interpreters-4.8.1-1.fc16, kruler-4.8.1-1.fc16, ksaneplugin-4.8.1-1.fc16, ksecrets-4.8.1-1.fc16, ksnapshot-4.8.1-1.fc16, kstars-4.8.1-1.fc16, ktimer-4.8.1-1.fc16, ktorrent-4.2.0-1.fc16, ktouch-4.8.1-1.fc16, kturtle-4.8.1-1.fc16, kwallet-4.8.1-1.fc16, kwordquiz-4.8.1-1.fc16, libkdcraw-4.8.1-1.fc16, libkdeedu-4.8.1-1.fc16, libkexiv2-4.8.1-1.fc16, libkipi-4.8.1-1.fc16, libksane-4.8.1-1.fc16, libktorrent-1.2.0-1.fc16, marble-4.8.1-1.fc16, okular-4.8.1-1.fc16, oxygen-gtk-1.2.0-2.fc16, oxygen-icon-theme-4.8.1-1.fc16, parley-4.8.1-1.fc16, pykde4-4.8.1-1.fc16, qyoto-4.8.1-1.fc16, kde-plasma-daisy-0.0.4.25-4.fc16, gwenview-4.8.1-2.fc16, kdepim-4.8.1-3.fc16, kdepim-runtime-4.8.1-2.fc16, oxygen-gtk2-1.2.2-1.fc16, rocs-4.8.1-1.fc16, ruby-korundum-4.8.1-1.fc16, ruby-qt-4.8.1-1.fc16, smokegen-4.8.1-1.fc16, smokekde-4.8.1-1.fc16, smokeqt-4.8.1-1.fc16, step-4.8.1-1.fc16, superkaramba-4.8.1-1.fc16, svgpart-4.8.1-1.fc16, sweeper-4.8.1-1.fc16, xsettings-kde-0.12.3-2.fc16.1, kde-runtime-4.8.1-2.fc16, kde-workspace-4.8.1-6.fc16, kde-plasma-smooth-tasks-0.0.1-0.4.20120313hge8a97edfdebc.fc16, kdelibs-4.8.1-2.fc16, kdeplasma-addons-4.8.1-2.fc16 has been pushed to the Fedora 16 stable repository.  If problems still persist, please make note of it in this bug report.